Interview for WOR-FM

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On May 9, 1965, a Sunday, The Beatles filmed a number of exterior scenes for “Help!” in London and St Margarets, near Twickenham Film Studios. One of those scenes was shot outside the Dolphin Restaurant on Blandford Street, which stood in for the exterior of the Rajahama Indian restaurant. After filming, The Beatles were interviewed by Sandy Lesberg of New York radio station WOR.

However, the dating of the interview presents an apparent anomaly. During the conversation, Ringo Starr remarked, “Liverpool lost last night,” prompting Lesberg to reply, “Liverpool lost, Milan won.” This exchange corresponds to Internazionale’s 3–0 victory over Liverpool in the second leg of the European Cup semi-final at San Siro, played on Wednesday, May 12, 1965 — three days after the generally accepted date of the interview.

At the same time, when Lesberg asked, “How long more have you got to do on the picture?”, Ringo replied, “Two days,” which matches the filming schedule, as The Beatles had only two remaining days of principal photography at Cliveden House on May 10 and 11. The conflicting references make it difficult to determine the interview’s exact recording date.

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Part 1 — Obertauern, Shea Stadium, and the premiere

LESBERG: Where were you — where were you in Austria? In Salzburg? Near it? What was the place called?

PAUL: Obertauern. Near Salzburg, yeah.

JOHN: (singing, to the tune of “Deutschland über alles”) Deutschland, Deutschland, Obertauern, Obertauern. That’s where we were.

LESBERG: This is the new theme song, huh? [?]

UNIDENTIFIED: That was an exclamation point. [?]

LESBERG: Oh yeah, I forgot. And Shea Stadium with a question—

UNIDENTIFIED: With an exclamation point.

LESBERG: When are you going to be at Shea Stadium in New York?

JOHN: I don’t know. When is it?

GEORGE: Fifteenth of August, isn’t it?

RINGO: Mr Shenson is just getting his piece of paper out. He’ll tell us.

LESBERG: You still call Mr Shenson “Mr Shenson”?

JOHN: Either that or “Soft Wally”. Depends how we’re feeling.

GEORGE: Fifteenth of August — Shea Stadium.

LESBERG: That’s pretty authoritative, isn’t it?

UNIDENTIFIED: Shea who? Shea moi. [?]

RINGO: And the picture opens the first week in August in New York — so Mr Shenson says. He’s been telling me.

PAUL: Are you going to go to it?

LESBERG: Oh yeah. Are you going to be there? For the preview?

PAUL: For the film? I don’t think so. But anyway, are you going to go to it?

LESBERG: Yes, of course.

PAUL: I want a promise off you that you’re going to be there.

LESBERG: I’ll have a picture taken in front of the door. All right?

PAUL: The thing is, you see, if you’ll be there — well, we know there’ll be riots at the premiere then. I’ve heard about your following, you know.

LESBERG: Yeah, and I want to talk to you about that — we’ve got to stop following me… (laughter, crosstalk) Now, this is a very formal interview, and I would appreciate it— Do you want to say something, Walter?

SHENSON: I think the boys ought to tell you — I ought to tell you about the marvellous song they wrote called Help!… with an exclamation point.

LESBERG: (jokingly) That was Walter Shenson, the producer of the picture, and that’s enough now. What’s this song that’s— (Beatles laugh) Oh, Walter, I see you in New York all the time. Are you going to be there for the premiere of your picture?

SHENSON: Definitely, yes!

LESBERG: I’ll say — then there’ll be riots.

PAUL: Yeah.

LESBERG: Aren’t there riots where Walter goes?

PAUL: Yeah — with an exclamation point.

Part 2 — “Seven songs in the film” and weekends in Austria

JOHN: (whispering) By the way — by the way, there’s seven songs in the film.

LESBERG: Is your voice changing, John?

JOHN: No, no.

UNIDENTIFIED: I don’t look so beautiful. [?]

LESBERG: What is it — every time I get back to you, Ringo, we’re testing again? [?]

PAUL: It’s not that we’re trying to plug this film, but it’s seven songs, and it’s a rollicking, rollicking, happy smash… What are the other words you say about films?

LESBERG: You want to know a few of them? We can’t use them on my show. Would you tell me — let’s get back to weekends, no kidding for a minute. When you were up in Austria, did you get the weekends off then?

JOHN & PAUL: No.

RINGO: No, we didn’t.

PAUL: We worked. But you’ve got to realise — we have to work on locations, you see.

LESBERG: Even on Sundays?

PAUL: Even on a Sunday.

JOHN: What do you mean even on Sundays — especially Sundays.

LESBERG: Especially on Sundays, John?

JOHN: To finish off making the mov— nothing! (laughs)

PAUL: “Making the film”, I think he was going to say.

LESBERG: Something like that, huh?

PAUL: Something… either that, or it was satirical.

Part 3 — Satire is out; “Rabber” is in

JOHN: Satire is out, Paul. [?]

LESBERG: What’s “in”, John?

JOHN: Rabber. We’re all very rabber over in England these days.

PAUL: Oh yeah. I think he’s trying to start a new craze, or something or other.

JOHN: Rabber. Rabber macs. Rabber boots.

PAUL: Rabber Burns. (laughter) You know Rabber Burns, don’t you? (sings) “Only a rose!” That’s Rabber Burns.

LESBERG: Would you like to do a little bit of that song that you wrote for the picture, Paul?

PAUL: Uhh… (laughs) We’d probably get into six other unions and we won’t be able to use it. I’ll tell you what, though — what we’ll do is we’ll promise to send you a copy just before it’s released. Right? So you’ve got the— that’s an exclusive, isn’t it? I mean, that’s a favour.

LESBERG: Well, I’m not Hedda Hopper. I don’t need a—

PAUL: (jokingly) Right, you won’t get it then. If you’re going to be like that…

Part 4 — Hedda Hopper and Walter Winchell

JOHN: If we’d thought you were Hedda Hopper we wouldn’t have let you in here… Hedda Hopper was coming in on her bike.

LESBERG: (laughing) Did she ever interview you?

PAUL: She was at a party, with a big hat. She’s great. Good — good girl, yeah. Nice. In Hollywood.

GEORGE: She hopped past us.

PAUL: Hopped past, yeah. Who’s that other fella, though, that we don’t like? Who’s that fella? … Walter Winchell!

LESBERG: What about it? Did he interview you?

PAUL: Don’t speak to me about him.

JOHN: He’s stupid.

LESBERG: Why is he stupid, John?

JOHN: He’s stupid because he just lies, and writes a lot of trash.

LESBERG: Have you ever met him, John?

JOHN: No, but he keeps writing things about Paul which are lies, and so he must be off his head.

PAUL: I’ve said many a time that he’s just a bit off his head. I think he’s, uhh — I don’t know what’s happened to him. Everyone said he used to be good, but he’s— I tell you, it’s just lies. He says I’m married, you see. And I’d like to say: Mister Winchell — Walter, sir, if you’re listening — I’m not! (jokingly) Well, that told him, didn’t it!

LESBERG: Is that the lie he’s been telling about you?

PAUL: Yeah! I mean, you know, that’s pushing it, isn’t it?

JOHN: But he goes on and on writing it, you know, as if he knows. He doesn’t know anything, that old Winch.

LESBERG: Goodbye, Walter. (jokingly) Well, I’m taking inventory of the people I’ve lost as friends on this show.

JOHN: I like Hedda Hopper. She’s nice.

PAUL: Hedda’s great, yeah. Everybody else is great! It’s not that we’ve got anything against Walter — is it, Walter? No, of course it isn’t.

GEORGE: Walter Wimpy. [?]

LESBERG: Well, is that what he says about you? I mean, he doesn’t say anything really more than that.

PAUL: No, it’s not bad, you know. But it’s just that it’s a lie, that’s all there is, you know. Either that or he’s just got the wrong information.

LESBERG: Well, Ringo — you’re married, though, aren’t you?

RINGO: Yes.

LESBERG: Yeah, well, that sterling endorsement from Ringo was unsolicited.

Part 5 — Two more days of filming; “We’re all very Gulliver”

LESBERG: How long more have you got to do on the picture?

RINGO: Two days. Actual filming — but we have to do quite a bit of post-sync, which will take about two weeks, so I believe. So they tell me.

LESBERG: Do you believe what they tell you, though?

RINGO: Oh, I always believe them.

LESBERG: (to Shenson) You telling these boys straight, Walter?

PAUL: (jokingly) We’re all very Gulliver.

LESBERG: You’re all very gullible?

PAUL: We’re very Gulliver, yeah.

LESBERG: And you travel a lot, too?

PAUL: Travel a lot, yes, too. You got that one.

LESBERG: Did you write the script, too, for this picture?

PAUL: No — we had a good try, but it was obscene. Had to be banned.

LESBERG: (laughs) I don’t know why I try to be heard when you’re— [?] Did you really write the score for this picture?

PAUL: Score? Depends what you mean by “score”. We wrote seven songs, you know. If that’s the score, well, we wrote it.

LESBERG: Called “Help”?

PAUL: “Help”, yes, yes. With an exclamation mark.

GEORGE: You didn’t say “no” then, did you?

PAUL: (announcer voice) You didn’t nod your head then, did you? I’m afraid you just lost the quiz! I’m afraid you just lost the major prize — can you come back next week?

LESBERG: I can — but tell me what it is I just lost. (laughs)

JOHN: A life-size cardboard cut-out of Walter Winchell. (laughter)

LESBERG: You mean, with the darts coming out the back?

RINGO: No — in the front. [?]

LESBERG: What, Ringo? Say it again.

RINGO: Not me! I’m not saying anything bad… against anybody.

PAUL: No, you’ve got it wrong. We like everyone.

LESBERG: Do you, really?

PAUL: Yeah, of course we do. We love ’em all!

Part 6 — The 1965 US tour: “rounds of baseball”

LESBERG: How long are you going to be in the States when you do that tour? Do you know?

JOHN: Four weeks, isn’t it?

RINGO: Two and a half weeks.

LESBERG: Stadiums, mostly, huh?

RINGO: Shea Stadiums, mostly. [?]

PAUL: Yeah. We’ll be doing a couple of rounds of baseball before we go on, just to limber up, you know. Is that what you call it — “rounds” of baseball? Maybe not.

LESBERG: No — it’s close enough. (laughs) If you can do a round of baseball, then it’ll be very interesting.

RINGO: A square of baseball, then.

JOHN: A round of bread — that’s nice.

RINGO: A round of bread? Have one yourself. A round the corner’s not bad, either.

PAUL: (jokingly, to Ringo) Listen — what I want to know is, how did your wife fall for you? … Can’t understand it!

LESBERG: Well, goodbye, Paul. You know what happened to you, don’t you? You just joined Winchell and Hopper. When’s the date when you first go to the States?

GEORGE: Shea Stadium. (laughter)

JOHN: When are we — do you know… does anybody know?

SHENSON: Thirteenth. [of August]

PAUL: We’re all a bit vague on dates and things. We always have been.

LESBERG: What are you going to do after you get through this picture? Are you going to take a vacation?

PAUL: Probably, if we get a chance. Yeah.

JOHN: We tour Europe. Before America we go around Europe — and see if they’re still alive.

LESBERG: Are they?

JOHN: Yes, I hope so. They just got the Cup, didn’t they. [?]

Part 7 — Football, hurling, and “Bill Shalalee”

RINGO: Liverpool lost last night.

LESBERG: Liverpool lost, Milan won, yeah. Even I understood that. It was — I mean, it was really interesting. I think that’s the one sport that could really make it in the States, and could be the one universal sport — soccer. What we saw yesterday, you know, the Milan and the—

GEORGE: Don’t they have it there, though?

LESBERG: Very little. And if they have it, it’s teams coming from over here, or they get the Irish League or something.

PAUL: That’s it! I saw some mad game on the TV in America. Irish game. What was it — hooking, or something?

RINGO: (jokingly) Hookey.

PAUL: No, it wasn’t hockey, I don’t think. It was a MAD game I’ve never ever seen before.

JOHN: And they were just smashing the ball about with old shillelaghs — hitting the ball with shillelaghs.

PAUL: Yeah! Wild game, you know.

JOHN: It was direct from Ireland onto American TV — we were watching it.

GEORGE: (jokingly) Bill Shillelagh.

JOHN: I get it, George — I get it. “Rock Around The Clock”. Got it.

LESBERG: (laughing) Bill Shillelagh and his Comets, huh?

GEORGE: Did you hear the one about the fellow who wanted to prove Darwin’s theory? [?]

UNIDENTIFIED: You can’t tell that one. [?]

LESBERG: Join Ringo in the bullpen. Good shot, I must say. [?]

Part 8 — The tour schedule: Houston, “Ted Sullivan”, Chicago

LESBERG: All right, so anyway — do you want to briefly give me, no kidding now, some sort of a schedule of where you’re going to be in the States, besides Shea Stadium?

RINGO: The only other place I know is Houston.

JOHN: And California.

GEORGE: I think we’re doing Ted Sullivan’s show.

LESBERG: Who?

RINGO: Ted Sullivan’s show.

LESBERG: You’ve got to clean that up before you get there — that’s a big show.

JOHN: And Los Angeles — we go there, I know that. Yeah. Hollywood.

GEORGE: Two shows in Chicago.

JOHN: San Francisco, we go there.

LESBERG: How many are you going to do in Shea Stadium? Just one?

RINGO: I believe so. Just one.

UNIDENTIFIED: Who? … Kaminsky. [?]

UNIDENTIFIED: Let me just jump in. Have a cigarette. — Don’t smoke. [?]

PAUL: Listen, though. No — as I said before, we’re dead vague about the things, and you’d be better just to ask someone who knows about it.

RINGO & PAUL: Like Walter.

LESBERG: You mean Walter Winchell?

PAUL: No — Walter Shenson.

Part 9 — Weekends, getting mobbed, and “Tunipia”

LESBERG: All right, is there anything else you can tell me — when you’re not working on a picture, what are you doing weekends? Do you stay together on weekends? Do you split up?

PAUL: We either go out for the day if the weather’s good — go out for a drive, or go to the pictures.

LESBERG: Are there any places you can go where you don’t get mobbed? I mean, I just came in now — there’s, you know, twenty more girls out in front, climbing on the walls. Is there any place you can go in the UK?

PAUL: Millions of places where you don’t get mobbed. Yeah.

RINGO: Name one.

PAUL: Name one? Tunipia!

JOHN: But that’s not part of the UK, is it though, Paul, these days?

PAUL: Europe, though! Isn’t it in Europe? No… Africa.

LESBERG: Close enough.

PAUL: Well, you damned fool, Paul. I’m afraid I’m a fool… Listen — around the Mediterranean there’s a couple. For instance — Tunidia! Name one!

LESBERG: Tunisia.

PAUL: Pardon? … Let’s have a bit more of this play between, uhh… talk.

LESBERG: (jokingly) Is this interview too formal?

PAUL: Volley? What is it called — that talking back and forth?

JOHN: I have two knees here. You have two knees. Two-knees-ia. [?]

LESBERG: What was the one — Leslie Caron’s little kid said: the Jap— Japanese, Chinese, and English-knees. [?]

PAUL: I don’t think that’s very funny. What did you say it for?

LESBERG: I don’t know — something just came over me. That’s an old Tunisian joke.

GEORGE: Well, you see, they got this Irish navvy on this ape— [?]

UNIDENTIFIED: You can’t tell that one, George.

UNIDENTIFIED: That’s another one he can’t tell?

LESBERG: I think I’m getting it, well, sentence by sentence, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED: “Take the sack off — I want to kiss her.” “Not exactly…” [?]

LESBERG: Is there much he left out, George? Well — don’t tell me. Never mind. I’ll take your word for it. All right — is there any place around London that you can get away without crowds, really?

JOHN: Buckingham Palace. It’d be quiet around there. Well, when she’s out, it’s quite quiet, though.

PAUL: There are places. I mean, we go to the — there’s places where we can go, and, uh… UA, which is United Artists. You know, when you’re in the business, you get to call it “UA”.

LESBERG: Very hip, yeah.

PAUL: Kind of informal, you know. They run films for you.

Part 10 — Farewells

LESBERG: Paul, thank you.

PAUL: Not at all.

LESBERG: Thank you, Ringo.

RINGO: Thanks a lot, pal.

LESBERG: (laughs) Thanks, George.

GEORGE: Thank you, Walter Winchell.

LESBERG: Do you want to say anything to Hedda Hopper? (laughs) Thank you, John, very much.

JOHN: It’s been a pleasure. If you want to get ahead-a, get a Hopper.

LESBERG: All right. The Beatles, in London. This is Sandy Lesberg… bedraggled.